Seriously, WTF?!

Get ready. *climbs up on her MMO soapbox*

Unauthorized third-party programs are against the TOS in most games, Darkfall included.  Often, though, and especially early in games, detection can be rudimentary and rules aren’t always enforced.  But, as should be obvious to anyone who can read, general acceptance does not equal licitness. 

It’s generally accepted that young adults will drink before they’re of legal age.  If you’re caught, however, you’ll still be punished.  Carrying pot around is usually against the law but in many states there are bigger issues so it’s overlooked.  Does that make carrying pot in your purse legal?  Does it mean if an officer felt like taking you to jail for possession you could avoid it by crying that you’d gotten away with it before and to look at all the other people doing it?  No.

It floors me how many people I see talking in the Race and Trade channels in Darkfall about macroing their characters to swim circles in the ocean, gather resources, and level up magic or melee (I’ve even seen public channel requests for assistance setting up the programs that run these macros and posts on the official game forums citing macros as the best way to have fun).  I’m even more flabbergasted by how many claim that because Aventurine hasn’t banned them, personally, these cheaters are not breaking rules and, more pitiful, that everyone else is doing it. (I just don’t understand those motherfuckers who feel that they’re above the law or that they’re somehow less responsible for the hideous state of whatever game they’re playing because they’re “not using hacks or cheats.”  Hello, that’s a bot you’re running, dipshit.)

Using unauthorized third-party programs to run macros is no different than duping items or using a speed hack.  They are all a serious detriment to our gaming experience and often lead to the atrophy and finally death of the community that keeps a game alive.  Whether you agree or believe the reasons behind fair, the TOS protects both players and developers and insures your favourite game has the best chance possible at success.

{ 16 comments… add one }
  • wisl October 7, 2009, 6:06 pm

    “Darkfall about macroing their characters to swim circles in the ocean,”
    “Using unauthorized third-party programs to run macros is no different than duping items or using a speed hack.”

    I agree that hacking is a major game breaking thing to do, and encourage banning of such players. But on the other hand I don’t agree with you on that i.e swimming in circles, (which can be done with a toothpick jamming one of your arrow buttons and pressing num-lock), or using a macro program to skill up your character while you’re getting some quality shut eye at 4 am is comparable.

    That being said I don’t want to justify either methods, or any other methods that involves third party programs. I just believe that Aventurine has had such a loose grip on their ban stick that the game has come to a stage where you (if you want to keep up) don’t have a choice but to macro.

    Implying that macro is the same as a speed hack is above me. Macros don’t alter the game mechanics in any way. An hack does. BIGTIME. Do not mix the two please.

    Both two are evils but you can’t compare them is what I’m trying to say..

  • LurbyJo October 7, 2009, 7:05 pm

    I absolutely think you can compare them and should. Different shades of wrong doesn’t make any of them right and making concessions only leads to the general apathy toward the issues we’re experiencing now.

    Using a third-party program to macro your character to swim or skill up is detrimental to the game. You are using a program to circumvent game mechanics to gain an advantage over other players. Speed hacking and item duping are also ways you can use something outside the game to gain an advantage.

    Just because you feel that there is less impact to other players with one option than another doesn’t make it so. Ask the person who’s been playing legitimately and runs up against someone who’s been macroing for resources and skill gain. The impact is felt keenly.

  • Slaker October 7, 2009, 7:36 pm

    I don’t think macroing is a problem..since everyone can do it. If you are not doing it, its your own decision.

    I think macroing is a good thing for casual players…while you are busy with your family or at work, you can just turn on your macro and gain skills while doing something important. You can actually catch up to hardcore players while doing other things…anyway its my own opinion and I would be sad if they would make it illegal.

    I don’t think it does really hurt the game..or else they would have done something about it…long ago. Ive been playing this game since closed beta and the only illegal actions with macros are the one done inside npc cities with guard towers,which is fine imo. Cause everywhere else people can break your macro…and loot your regs or whatever you have on you.

    All in all, macroing can be seen as a bad thing or a good thing…everyone has a different point of view.

  • LurbyJo October 7, 2009, 9:32 pm

    Anyone can use a speed hack or a bot. Just because they are available doesn’t make their use justifiable. The TOS clearly states that unauthorized third-party programs are not allowed.

    Whether Aventurine currently has the resources or technology in place to deal with the issue is another matter. If you’re running a program to automate your gameplay, you’re cheating.

  • Romans DeMalum October 7, 2009, 11:12 pm

    Seriously? If you were a horse I would have shot you by now. Stop crying. Find a real game.

    /tissue

    • LurbyJo October 7, 2009, 11:24 pm

      Fail troll fails.

      Find a real game? ‘Cause this one’s …fake?

      Do share your thoughts on “real games.”

  • LurbyJo October 8, 2009, 9:40 am

    I am talking specifically about using an unauthorized third-party program to run macros and automate your gameplay. One use is swimming in circles in the ocean. Another is gathering resources or skilling up magic and melee.

    You can accept and reject certain types of cheating all day long. It doesn’t make one cheat right because you approve it.

  • BillyHicks October 8, 2009, 4:27 am

    Macroing in DF has been going on for so long that I think most of the populations has decided that its pretty standard. More like using a Addon in wow.

    The main reason that people overlook it is because its really hard to decide what a macro really is and where to draw the line. A few examples

    1/ a macro that auto presses a key every 5 seconds to cast a spell. I am sure you would say that this is wrong.

    2/ a piece of tape of a toothpick to hold down an arrow to let you swim in circles. No 3rd party program here, is it still wrong?

    3/ Pressing numberlock. Numberlock makes you auto run. If I leave my char running into a wall to level up the run skill, is that wrong?

    4/ Standing by a wall and being hit. If I leave my char standing by a wall and my clan mates hit me to level up there skills (and level my defense skills at the same time) is that wrong?

    Is it wrong that in Eve your skills level up even when your not online?

    I think that the DF players have pretty much decided that as long as your not doing anything you couldn’t do while at the keyboard and that your doing it away from protected NPC towns then its OK. You may not like it, I may not like it, but thats how it is.

    Speed hacks, auto looting, flying hiding underground, radars etc. are pretty much hated by everyone as they do things that you can’t do without altering the game files.

    • LurbyJo October 8, 2009, 9:38 am

      It is NOT difficult to determine what running an unauthorized third-party program to macro your character means.

      Your first example, if using an unauthorized third-party program (as explicitly stated in the TOS) IS wrong. Your second, while arguably gray, does not violate the TOS unless you’re not sitting at your computer. Your third and fourth examples cover options provided by the game that, again, are not violations unless you’re AFK.

      EVE’s offline skill training is a feature of the game. Darkfall offers no such feature.

      Players can decide to ignore rules and do whatever they choose but it doesn’t make it right and general acceptance doesn’t make such behaviour magically legit.

      And FYI, most autolooting is done with the same type of macro used to perform all of the other points you brought up as acceptable.

      Careful on that slope, it’s fucking slippery.

    • bomb October 14, 2009, 7:36 am

      Technically your example of the toothpick is right. It is not a macro. But they have specifically ruled out using the autorun function unattended. So not a macro, but still against the rules.

  • Halli October 8, 2009, 7:14 am

    You only see black and white, there is no gray for you. People put 1k regs on and start a macro, city gets raided and somebody gets alot of loot. There are two sides of the macroing, It’s risk/reward. And you are talking about swimming macros, just run to the sea and push numlock and you will swim in there all day. Thats not a macro, you are just using auto run. And what about my mouse ? I got macros on it that draw up sword and shield when I push 1 button. Is that cheating ? I support macroing becuse other ppl can gain alot from macroers, but I despise hacking.
    You need to take your sunglasses off and see the world in a brighter light.

  • NoxAngst October 9, 2009, 4:22 am

    I agree that it is wrong. I have never and will never use a 3rd party or macro program. I started playing darkfall only a month ago and I have no problem rolling people who have been playing before that and are macroing.

    So don’t tell me all this need to macro to keep up. If you play and get skills the right way then you’ll own just as well. Sure the fights may be longer. But isn’t the point to have some epic battle that you can talk about and leaves you all awesome feeling afterwards win or loose?

  • ISVRaDa October 13, 2009, 2:15 am

    All this things are Darkfall, we have to live with it 🙂

  • bomb October 14, 2009, 7:28 am

    Lurby; They have said that unattended macroing is against the rules. Which implies that attended macroing is. But to my knowledge they have not approved any third party tools. So their definition of the rules is muddy at best.

    Add to that;
    With the proliferation of the different Gxx’s keyboards and the like, the line between macro tool and keyboard has been washed away.

    They should just accept macroing – which they MUST have known would be a thing that people would do from the moment they decided on their design of the skilling system.

    I think it is reasonable that they rule it out in the absolute safe havens of NPC cities, but apart from that, they have to accept it as a part of how people play the game.

  • bomb October 14, 2009, 7:38 am

    One last comment;
    Rules and morals are different things. I will not, on its face, accept an argument that says that if the TOS says you can’t do something, that it is then “wrong”.

    You will have to convince me that macroing is wrong. And atm I am not. It does not enable me to do something that was not meant to be possible.

    • LurbyJo October 14, 2009, 7:52 am

      Game developers don’t have to accept anything, especially something as detrimental to the game they designed as botting.

      I agree that the line between what’s fair and isn’t has been BLURRED by keyboards that provide macroing functions, however, that’s why there are provisions for those circumstances written in TOSes.

      You may not accept that breaking a rule makes what you did wrong but that’s just the reality. It’s not my job to convince you to follow the rules.

      The bottom line is that no matter the manner in which you choose to do it, you are doing something that wasn’t meant to be possible: playing your character when you’re not playing the game.

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